| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | Sep 17 13:58 | |
| jwb | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, dgilmore, dwmw2, jwb, notting, nirik, kick_, jds2001, j-rod | Sep 17 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jwb | Hi everybody; who's around? | Sep 17 14:00 |
| *nirik is here. | Sep 17 14:00 | |
| *dgilmore is here | Sep 17 14:01 | |
| *jds2001 here | Sep 17 14:01 | |
| jwb | i think we're just waiting on j-rod. the rest are probably at LPC or otherwise unavailable | Sep 17 14:01 |
| jds2001 | do we have quorum with j-rod? | Sep 17 14:02 |
| rwmjones_ | I hope we're _not_ discussing mingw today ... both me & Dan Berrange aren't available, and Jef Spaleta _does not_ speak for the MinGW SIG despite what he may claim | Sep 17 14:02 |
| jwb | jds2001, 5 of 9, so yes | Sep 17 14:03 |
| rwmjones_ | if we can postpone any mingw stuff til next week, we'll have proper packaing guidelines & packages to discuss, but neither are in a reasonable state at the moment | Sep 17 14:03 |
| jwb | rwmjones_, i don't think he ever claimed that. and you keep telling us that. i think we got it now | Sep 17 14:03 |
| jwb | rwmjones_, nevertheless, we can postpone that until next week. it makes sense to do so | Sep 17 14:04 |
| j-rod | back | Sep 17 14:05 |
| jwb | ok, let's get started | Sep 17 14:05 |
| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCO-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Bernie Innocenti | Sep 17 14:05 | |
| jwb | bpepple and dwmw2 both gave +1s to bernie on the list | Sep 17 14:05 |
| rwmjones_ | jwb, yes please -- really the guidelines are in no state to be reviewed, we haven't been able to work on it last week, and things will be in much better next shape next week (I promise:-) | Sep 17 14:05 |
| jds2001 | +1 since he's working on gathering new OLPC contributors | Sep 17 14:05 |
| jwb | rwmjones_, noted and officially moved :) | Sep 17 14:06 |
| rwmjones_ | thanks | Sep 17 14:06 |
| jwb | nirik, j-rod, dgilmore? | Sep 17 14:06 |
| *rwmjones_ goes\ | Sep 17 14:06 | |
| j-rod | I have to abstain, I really didn't have a chance to look into his work | Sep 17 14:06 |
| nirik | I'm worried that he's done almost no reviews... | Sep 17 14:06 |
| j-rod | and it sort of sounded like some that he *had* done weren't quite up to par... | Sep 17 14:07 |
| dgilmore | +1, he is eager. and he learns well. I will mentor him and keep an eye on him | Sep 17 14:07 |
| j-rod | (but all I know is what I vaguely recall reading in others' emails) | Sep 17 14:07 |
| nirik | +1 with dgilmore helping him. ;) | Sep 17 14:08 |
| jwb | i'm willing to +1 if dgilmore is helping too | Sep 17 14:08 |
| jwb | that's enough to pass | Sep 17 14:08 |
| j-rod | likewise | Sep 17 14:08 |
| jwb | ok, Bernie is now a sponsor | Sep 17 14:08 |
| jwb | anything else here? | Sep 17 14:08 |
| jwb | ok. skipping MinGW at the request of rwmjones and due to a lack of people in general today | Sep 17 14:09 |
| jwb | any objections on that? | Sep 17 14:09 |
| dgilmore | none | Sep 17 14:09 |
| jds2001 | nope | Sep 17 14:09 |
| j-rod | nada | Sep 17 14:09 |
| nirik | nope | Sep 17 14:09 |
| jwb | ok | Sep 17 14:09 |
| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCO-Meeting -- Features -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Red_Hat_Messaging | Sep 17 14:09 | |
| jwb | didn't we review this already? | Sep 17 14:09 |
| jwb | or was this discussed on the list? | Sep 17 14:10 |
| jds2001 | yeah, on the list, but no one actually voted :) | Sep 17 14:10 |
| jwb | ah, right | Sep 17 14:10 |
| nirik | it was discussed, but not approved. I think we had questions. | Sep 17 14:10 |
| nirik | https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/6 | Sep 17 14:10 |
| jds2001 | yeah, and like a loser i didnt note it on the talk page. | Sep 17 14:10 |
| *jds2001 sucks | Sep 17 14:10 | |
| jwb | ok, so the big issue was the Red Hat naming right? | Sep 17 14:11 |
| jds2001 | or maybe I did and don't remember :) | Sep 17 14:11 |
| jds2001 | yeah | Sep 17 14:11 |
| jds2001 | so noted on the feature page | Sep 17 14:11 |
| jwb | in my understanding, this is an actual Red Hat project/product | Sep 17 14:12 |
| j-rod | yep | Sep 17 14:12 |
| jds2001 | hmm, so are lots of things. | Sep 17 14:12 |
| jwb | like what? | Sep 17 14:12 |
| nirik | in any case, from the list: notting, nirik, jds2001, bpepple all +1 | Sep 17 14:12 |
| jwb | nirik, right thank you | Sep 17 14:13 |
| *j-rod +1, doesn't really care about the name | Sep 17 14:13 | |
| jwb | +1 from me | Sep 17 14:13 |
| dgilmore | i think its ok +1 | Sep 17 14:13 |
| jwb | i know f13 is looking at using this in infrastructure | Sep 17 14:13 |
| jds2001 | I mean if Red Hat is fine with it, so am I :) | Sep 17 14:14 |
| jwb | that's enough to pass. Feature approved. | Sep 17 14:14 |
| jwb | poelcat, Red Hat Messaging feature is approved | Sep 17 14:14 |
| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCO-Meeting -- Features -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GStreamer_dependencies_in_RPM | Sep 17 14:14 | |
| j-rod | and the name is fine | Sep 17 14:14 |
| nirik | from the list: notting, nirik, jds2001, bpepple all +1 | Sep 17 14:15 |
| jwb | so is the Gstreamer thing actually in beta though? | Sep 17 14:15 |
| nirik | not sure. | Sep 17 14:15 |
| *nirik goes to look. | Sep 17 14:15 | |
| j-rod | big fat +1 | Sep 17 14:15 |
| nirik | yeah, it seems to be. Just the version that is in beta (I think) | Sep 17 14:16 |
| jds2001 | it is. | Sep 17 14:16 |
| jwb | i'm a bit leery because it's a bit late, but +1 from me | Sep 17 14:16 |
| *jds2001 running rpm-4.5.90-0.git8461.7 | Sep 17 14:17 | |
| *nirik looks over at codina... when does that get blocked? or has it already been? | Sep 17 14:17 | |
| jwb | dgilmore, care to vote? | Sep 17 14:17 |
| nirik | ah, already done. Cool. | Sep 17 14:17 |
| jwb | ok, this has passed already | Sep 17 14:18 |
| jwb | poelcat, Gstreamer dependencies in RPM has also passed | Sep 17 14:18 |
| dgilmore | +1 | Sep 17 14:18 |
| jwb | nirik, can you update the ticket and close it out? | Sep 17 14:18 |
| *nirik goes to update the ticket | Sep 17 14:18 | |
| jwb | heh | Sep 17 14:18 |
| jwb | ok, moving on | Sep 17 14:18 |
| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | Sep 17 14:19 | |
| j-rod | rewind half a sec... | Sep 17 14:19 |
| *nirik raises his hand. I have an issue to bring up. | Sep 17 14:19 | |
| jwb | j-rod, sup? | Sep 17 14:19 |
| j-rod | if codeina gets dropped, we have no mp3 support that can be easily configured anymore | Sep 17 14:19 |
| j-rod | people have to already have 3rd-party repos set up | Sep 17 14:19 |
| j-rod | some users might view this as a regression... | Sep 17 14:20 |
| nirik | j-rod: you have some way around that? | Sep 17 14:20 |
| *jds2001 in favor of the education part of codeina | Sep 17 14:20 | |
| j-rod | keep codeina, I suppose | Sep 17 14:20 |
| jds2001 | not the 'go buy Fluendo stuff' part. | Sep 17 14:20 |
| j-rod | is there any reason it can't coexist? | Sep 17 14:20 |
| jwb | i thought it was removed at Board request? | Sep 17 14:21 |
| nirik | oh wait. we do still have it. | Sep 17 14:21 |
| jwb | i could be wrong... | Sep 17 14:21 |
| jds2001 | not really, the second part i think is what folks had objections to | Sep 17 14:21 |
| *nirik was typoing. It's still there. | Sep 17 14:21 | |
| j-rod | ok, nothing to worry about then. :) | Sep 17 14:21 |
| jwb | ok. nirik you had something? | Sep 17 14:21 |
| poelcat | jwb: did you see my last minute request to hound the feature owners? | Sep 17 14:22 |
| nirik | it's not been updated in many months tho. | Sep 17 14:22 |
| jwb | poelcat, one sec | Sep 17 14:22 |
| nirik | so, I think we should find out if it's going to be updated or dropped... | Sep 17 14:23 |
| spoleeba | sigh.. ive never claimed to speak for the mingw sig | Sep 17 14:24 |
| spoleeba | just want to make sure thats clear | Sep 17 14:24 |
| jwb | poelcat, so hounding seems fine... | Sep 17 14:24 |
| nirik | Shall we revisit next meeting and try and find out whats going on by then with codina? | Sep 17 14:24 |
| jwb | poelcat, did you need FESCo to do something there? | Sep 17 14:25 |
| jwb | nirik, yes | Sep 17 14:25 |
| j-rod | yeah, would be good to know | Sep 17 14:25 |
| jwb | nirik, ok did you have something else? | Sep 17 14:26 |
| nirik | yes. | Sep 17 14:26 |
| jwb | go for it | Sep 17 14:26 |
| nirik | Proposal: readd 'make force-tag' for now until we can work around workflow issues in the buildsys. | Sep 17 14:27 |
| jwb | ah | Sep 17 14:27 |
| nirik | there are several patches that would make it's use moot... and many maintainers are bent out of shape about it. | Sep 17 14:27 |
| *jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- re-add 'make force-tag' | Sep 17 14:27 | |
| nirik | I didn't realize so many people used it so heavily... | Sep 17 14:28 |
| *jds2001 wasn't envisioning the maintainers being bent out of shape | Sep 17 14:28 | |
| jwb | nirik, before we vote, i will point out that you would have to get +1s from every attending FESCo member today to pass it... | Sep 17 14:28 |
| nirik | indeed. | Sep 17 14:28 |
| jwb | so would you like to vote today, or wait until more are available next week? | Sep 17 14:28 |
| nirik | jds2001: well, I was expecting some grumbling, but not the flamefest. | Sep 17 14:29 |
| ajax | i apologize for not sending a new version of the patch to the list yet | Sep 17 14:29 |
| ajax | i'm a bit slammed with rhel | Sep 17 14:29 |
| jwb | ajax, no apologies needed | Sep 17 14:29 |
| ajax | plus i got some feedback that made me realize i should change the approach a bit | Sep 17 14:29 |
| poelcat | jwb: could you include reminder about those feature pages in the meeting summary? | Sep 17 14:29 |
| nirik | well, sooner would be better... if we vote it down today, I could always try again next week. ;) | Sep 17 14:29 |
| ajax | but: will do, i promise. | Sep 17 14:29 |
| jwb | poelcat, yes, certainly | Sep 17 14:29 |
| jwb | j-rod, nirik, jds2001, dgilmore: voting on nirik's proposal now | Sep 17 14:30 |
| jwb | +1 | Sep 17 14:30 |
| dgilmore | honestly i dont want to make it easy for people to misuse. I would propose we add back TAG_OPTS so that someone could run TAG_OPTS=-F make tag | Sep 17 14:30 |
| dgilmore | that way new users wont accidently do the wrong thing | Sep 17 14:31 |
| nirik | +1 from me... I do hope we can re-remove it or just make it so it doesn't matter anymore. | Sep 17 14:31 |
| j-rod | +1 | Sep 17 14:31 |
| jds2001 | so quick question here, i'm ignorant - have we actually seen misuse? | Sep 17 14:31 |
| jds2001 | +1 in any event. | Sep 17 14:31 |
| dgilmore | jds2001: yes | Sep 17 14:31 |
| jwb | i believe it was unintentional misuse, but yes | Sep 17 14:32 |
| *rwmjones_ is now known as rwmjones_afk | Sep 17 14:32 | |
| nirik | yeah, I think there was even some of the bad already built and retagged kind. | Sep 17 14:32 |
| dgilmore | there was | Sep 17 14:32 |
| jds2001 | gack | Sep 17 14:32 |
| nirik | but nothing we do would prevent that now, short of immutable tags. | Sep 17 14:32 |
| jwb | dgilmore, so are you a -1? | Sep 17 14:32 |
| dgilmore | which is why im proosing adding TAG_OPTS and keeping force-tag gone. that requires thought and deliberate actions | Sep 17 14:33 |
| nirik | dgilmore: would you be ok with re-adding force-tag with a nasty warning/timeout? | Sep 17 14:33 |
| dgilmore | jwb: yes im -1 to adding it back | Sep 17 14:33 |
| dgilmore | nirik: i dont think so | Sep 17 14:33 |
| nirik | ok, so how about the alternate TAG_OPTS proposal now? | Sep 17 14:34 |
| jds2001 | +1 | Sep 17 14:34 |
| dgilmore | ajax: would doing "TAG_OPTS=-F make tag" be acceptable | Sep 17 14:34 |
| jwb | +1 | Sep 17 14:34 |
| ajax | dgilmore: sure. | Sep 17 14:34 |
| dgilmore | +1 | Sep 17 14:34 |
| nirik | +1 | Sep 17 14:35 |
| jwb | j-rod, ? | Sep 17 14:35 |
| j-rod | jwb: scroll back futher. ;) | Sep 17 14:35 |
| j-rod | oh, sorry | Sep 17 14:35 |
| j-rod | nm | Sep 17 14:35 |
| j-rod | +1 | Sep 17 14:35 |
| ajax | i'm fine with loaded guns having a sign on them saying they're loaded | Sep 17 14:35 |
| *j-rod doing too many things at once | Sep 17 14:36 | |
| nirik | jwb: and can we put on the agenda next week to remove it again? :) KIDDING KIDDING! :) | Sep 17 14:36 |
| jwb | :) | Sep 17 14:36 |
| nirik | dgilmore: can you take care of modifying the Makefile.common? or would you like me to? or ? | Sep 17 14:37 |
| dgilmore | jwb: i think TAG_OPTS has passwd | Sep 17 14:37 |
| dgilmore | nirik: ill revert the commit that removed it | Sep 17 14:37 |
| jwb | dgilmore, yes | Sep 17 14:38 |
| jwb | ok, anything else? | Sep 17 14:39 |
| *jwb will end the meeting in 60 | Sep 17 14:39 | |
| *jwb will end the meeting in 30 | Sep 17 14:40 | |
| *jwb will end the meeting in 15 | Sep 17 14:40 | |
| jwb | -- MARK -- Meeting End | Sep 17 14:41 |
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